You would never accept less than a package deal if they wanted to come over to your place to see her, and you wouldn't drop her off and turn tail and run in shame either. Fuck that.
I second that.
Anders Andersen
JoinedPosts by Anders Andersen
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27
Solicitors Appontment Tomorrow - Advice Appreciated
by pale.emperor infollowing up on this thread: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5012900121935872/am-overreacting-here?page=3#!#5179106934128640.
im seeing my solicitor tomorrow to see about getting an order in place making sure any contact my daughter has with my jw family goes through me and not my ex-wife.. explained the situation briefly to the lawyer, she was asking more and more about why should i be concerned if a jw had access to my child.. i mentioned the blood issue, the shunning, the inappropriate pictures of armageddon in books/mags etc.
do you think i should bring in watchtower literature to show them what i mean?
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Anders Andersen
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25
Dutch JW to be investigated by government-appointed commission
by Anders Andersen intoday a government meeting re.
child abuse & jw was held.
see this post.
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Anders Andersen
All Netherlands has to do make mandatory reporting law, country wide.
Don't you think it's strange that God's supposedly clean people with the highest standard of morality of all needs worldly law makers to tell them crimes should be reported to the police, and children need to be protected from abuse?
If JW were really gods people they'd be an example for the world instead of the other way around.
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25
Dutch JW to be investigated by government-appointed commission
by Anders Andersen intoday a government meeting re.
child abuse & jw was held.
see this post.
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Anders Andersen
Watchtower (and others) can be made subject to mandatory reporting of child abuse. No religious liberties at stake there.
In fact, Dutch law already requires that everyone who has knowledge of serious crimes like rape report it to the police. Those who don't risk prosecution.
They can be forced to create, publish and implement a proper child protection policy.
They can be required to appoint and properly educate people who'd act as internal contact point for child abuse cases.
They can be required to demand official 'statements of good behavior' before appointing elders.
There are lots of things that can be done to improve the situation without infringing on personal or religious freedom.
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25
Dutch JW to be investigated by government-appointed commission
by Anders Andersen intoday a government meeting re.
child abuse & jw was held.
see this post.
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Anders Andersen
Yeah, sure. Then why did their lawyer suggest they hand over child abuse files? Obviously, to solicit victims
Already way over 200 victims have contacted RV. They hardly need to 'solicit'. This is an avalanche of suffering, caused in part by Watchtower.
and encourage them to sue in an attempt to drain them financially. This isn’t rocket science.
If you know anything about the Dutch legal system, you'd know monetary compensation for anything are jokes around here. This is not the USA. Trying to drain Watchtower financially by seeking compensation payments is useless in the Netherlands.
This has never been and will never be about protecting children of Jehovahs Witnesses.
You are describing Watchtower perfectly. Maybe even your own mindset.
Whatdo you do to improve the situation of child abuse victims within JW. At least RV is doing something. Don't accuse others of not caring for victims of you haven't done a single thing to help them yourself.
If it were, RV would go after the parents of abused children and demand answers as to why they failed their children.
JW parents' behavior is in large part a result of Watchtower doctrine, policies and culture. Don't JW normally pride themselves in having been reformed thanks to Watchtower? In cases like these, with elders having knowledge of abuse but not supporting victims to go to the police, or even discouraging them to do so, Watchtower is at least partly responsible. Their policies are damaging, and need to change.
But WT has the deeper pockets, and retribution is in order.
We'll see about that. Normally it's the mythical, loving Yahweh who seeks retribution, even if that means having to kill his own child as payment to himself. So I can see why you assume everyone thinks like that.
Zoals de waard is vertrouwt hij zijn gasten.
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25
Dutch JW to be investigated by government-appointed commission
by Anders Andersen intoday a government meeting re.
child abuse & jw was held.
see this post.
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Anders Andersen
Bobby,
The goal of Reclaimed Voices is not to bring down Watchtower. The goal is to push Watchtower to make changes and improve their child abuse handling policies.
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34
Am I Overreacting Here?
by pale.emperor inlet's call him "dave".. dave: hello?.
dave: we dont have to tell you how she is.
dave: <her mother> has custody.
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Anders Andersen
First, you left your daughter's beautiful name in your post. Maybe you want to change that to improve anonymity?
As for the topic at hand: don't bark at the wrong tree. Your mother is not really a party here.
If you and your ex have agreed to keep each other informed on your daughter's whereabouts, your beef is with your ex. Plan some time and sit down with her to discuss this.
Your mother and sister being rude cult followers is painful and very annoying, but seems not really relevant for the question at hand.
Peace...
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113
No Bible = No God?
by menrov insome doubt about the bible completely, some partially.
what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.
would you still believe in a creator?.
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Anders Andersen
Perry,
As cofty explains, these people didn't necessarily all lie, they may very well have truly believed Jesus rose from the dead.
Strong emotions can make people 'experience' weird things.
Strong beliefs can make people 'experience' weird things as well.
Combine the two, and quite strange stories may result.
Could it be that the women actually saw the gardener, not a ressurected Jesus? Could it be that the gardener decided to play along a little bit, for whatever reason (maybe simply to comfort those women)? Could it be that the other disciples were so much influenced by the words of the women and their own emotions and desires that they too perceived the gardener as being a ressurected Jesus? Could it be that the gardener took off once things went too far, and the his disappearence became a mythical ascension when the stories were written down decades later?
It's all quite plausible. To me more so than someone being raised from the death.
Countless other events might also explain the stories.
People are known to be highly susceptible to suggestion and delusion.
(Some very nice examples can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria )
Regardless, the stories about all this were written decades after the alleged facts, by people who by then had a belief system completely depending on the story being true. They might have added some elements here and there. Just a tiny claim about how many people witnessed an event. Just a tiny anecdote about Jesus entering a locked room or showing his stigmata. Just a story about angel Moroni and his golden plates. Just a story about seeing a cross and In Hoc Signo Vinces in the sky.
All that is not unheard of. People are known to sincerely misremember events that happened long ago. They are known to embellish stories about their country, their religion, their leader.
What is really the difference between some of the extraordinary claims collected in the Bible, and similar extraordinary claims made by others?
Why believe one, not the others?
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113
No Bible = No God?
by menrov insome doubt about the bible completely, some partially.
what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.
would you still believe in a creator?.
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Anders Andersen
@Perry,
My point is: if you're going to argue that eye witness accounts are trustworthy, why reject Mormonism (or any of the many other religious claims for which eye witness accounts exist) and accept only the 'eye witness reports' for the claims about Jesus?
I don't think the Mormons have a resurrection account that in anyway mirrors what happened in Israel with Jesus.
It's not about whose miracle is greater. It's about whether the accounts of such miracles can be trusted.
For Joe Smith's claims 3+8+1 eye witness accounts were written down by themselves.For claims about Jesus, we could refer to the gospels but these were written decades after Jesus lived, by people who weren't eye witnesses themselves. The first written claim about Jesus being resurrected was written 20! years after the alleged event, by someone who wasn't an eye witness himself. Time and opportunity enough to have the stories turn into mythical narratives, as often happens when beloved leaders die.
Scholars, both conservation and non-believers place the events of the resurrection exactly where they are purported to be.
Scholars also know Joe Smith was a real person, and he lived right there were he claims the miracles took place. In many novels and books of fiction (large) part of the story take place in real cities, refer to historical events....but that doesn't mean all of such a story is true, does it?Lots of other people have suffered died for their belief in something, true. But almost no one suffers & dies for something they KNOW to be a lie. This would have been the case in the 1st century.
Some people perpetuate a lie to gain power or money. Some people believe their own lies. Some believe other people's lies. Some believe because of ignorance. Some believe because they want something very badly.
Many people afflicted by the above would die for their beliefs.
Not too long ago I (and many others here) would have died for my JW beliefs. Now I know them to be false. Still 8 million JW would probably die for their mistaken beliefs. Does that mean the JW claims are correct?
Of course, to each their own...but I'm not really into accepting mythical stories as historical fact. Especially not given the rest of the book in which these stories are collected.
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113
No Bible = No God?
by menrov insome doubt about the bible completely, some partially.
what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.
would you still believe in a creator?.
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Anders Andersen
@perry,
The LDS church has written documents containing eye witness testimony to Joseph Smith's claims. The names of these eye witnesses are even recorded!
These eye witnesses saw an angel and the golden plates, and they heard God's voice testify the translation of the golden plates into the book of Mormon was God's work.
In addition, their testimonies were written and signed by them. Compare this to some stories for which 'eye witness reports' were written decades after the fact by people who weren't even eye witnesses themselves and only wrote down hearsay. (Gospels anyone?)
Do you believe the LDS Church / Mormon claims that the Book of Mormon was delivered on golden plates by an angel and translated by the power of God?
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21
Mea culpa..
by zeb injust a few hours ago i took my wife (uber) to the hall with eats she had prepared as the cong are doing some work there.
i had not set foot onto the kh property in years and my stomach went into a knot as i did.
well what happened?
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Anders Andersen
Zeb,
I hope you find much peace and quiet on your road to healing.
As for this part
Even in this mighty work I fear the wt has slipped the net as the final reports don't mention the many occasions where the wt elders were found most seriously wanting in their evidence. These fine needles of fact will not be there for the politicians to ponder when they deliberate what will become law or not out of the commission so has the whole thing been a waste of time?
...maybe it didn't give the immediate result you (and all of us) hoped for. The ARC had a different goal. It's aimed at getting the general picture so lawmakers could act.
However, the efforts you and many others put in the ARC were not in vain with regards to WBTS. For example, the ARC transcripts and concluding reports on the JW cases are used in the Netherlands to show the government that JW leaders cannot be trusted to respond honestly when under fire. To be able to prove that is of great value. For (those fighting for) victims of child abuse it makes the difference between [coming across as a mean spirited ex member with an axe to grind, falsely accusing honest clergymen of lying or hiding evidence] or [being seen as an honest concerned party who has to battle a machinery of JW leaders distorting the truth]. The commission that will be formed to investigate JW child abuse in NL has a different goal than the ARC. It will be JW specific. And whatever positive results come from it, it will be partly by your hand.
Your efforts are traveling both the world and the years. Thank you so much for all that!
I hope you find peace of mind quickly and indefinite!